Bedini/Cole Bipolar switch (or how to drastically reduce your input!)

[ren]

The second trigger doesnt have to be wound in reverse, you simply switch the ends.

So on one half of the full circuit you would send the end of your coil to the emitter and the start through your resistance to base, and on the other half you would send the end of your coil through resistance to base and the start to the emitter. One picks up the north and the other picks up the south. Make sense?

[tjnlsn255]

Yes it sort of makes sense...

I was planning to have two bifiler coils 90 degrees apart with seperate half circuits like in the Bedini notes but your description about picking up north and south is starting to make sense.....thanks!

Can you tell me where the "power coil" start and end go in the half circuit? That is very confusing..... In the half circuit drawing the "C" point has a dot... does that mean start or end.... thanks again......! Same for trigger... what does "A" with a dot mean.... start or end...?

I saw one window circuit on youtube that had all North poles instead of NSNSNS etc....

Like an SSG....Can this work? What is it about the "window winding" that is different than a "spool winding"?

Todd

[ren]

It should work either way with the half circuit, as long as you wire up the power winding the same way as the trigger winding. The dot usually signifies the top of the coil.

The window motor could work with all norths I guess, but it couldnt have same poles @ 180 degrees , or the window coils would have to be offset. EDIT: Do you mean the half circuit on the monopole? That can be done, but it isnt a true window motor as it uses a cored electromagnet


There are lots of differences between the two. For starters there is no core...

[theremart]

Window motor

This one has been said to of run for over a month...

S-Cage Stator and Reed Switch-Driven Bedini-Cole Commutator Large Window Motor

MAJOR COIL THERE!

[ren]

Hi ren
I started to read through all 3k posts on window motor group at yahoo, this will take a while. I passed by a post where it is said that the steel rotor will give more torque but less RPMs. The steel is used because of the flywheel effect and because it is magnetic and all attached magnets this way form kind of one big magnet. I ordered my neos, they will be 4"x1"x1" - very strong. Each one of these can lift about 190 pounds of weight
They are talking that the basic window motor should have two coils with 350 turns. One wire should be smaller and other thicker, just like in SSG. But some of them are also talking about a third winding that should be wound with a twice as long wire and this is called the generator winding. I do not quite understand this so far, but I am also gotten through about 50 messages. Do you know something about this third winding and its functions? And what about magnet distance to windings? Is smaller gap better? It's just that I want to learn as much as I can about window motors before I start building it as soon as my magnets arrive.
Thanks!

Hi Jet, dude I missed your post somehow! I dont have access to the window motor forums, Im glad you gave me that tidbit of information about the steel. I will have to see how it performs for me. I am planning to wind a generator coil around my multifilar arrangement, the way I see it is this. If you are turning your rotor with pulses the generator coil can be used like a pickup winding, collecting potential from the rotating magnetic field. The pulses going through the drive windings are only going to increase this effect IMO. So if we can capture alot off this winding into a cap and have it dump out of phase back into the front end then perhaps we can supplement some or all of the input?

I am going to have a very fine air gap, (precise rotor a must as always) Probably in the 1-2 mm range. Remember to leave enough space for some zip ties around the coil in a couple of places too. Make sure your rotor is all sorted before you wind your coil, or make it removeable. You will have to use your imagination around the shaft and bearings to keep the wire clear. I reckon a small aluminum rim from a car or motorcycle could make a great rotor for those neos. Youd have to mount them sturdy though.

Those neos sound tasty be careful with them! Look forward to seeing some results. I am looking at getting my wire within the next week. Happy Coiling! And let me know if you come across any more tidbits from the window motor forums!

Ren

PS heres a little pic from John that sorta explains the generator winding.

[ren]

Hey MArt nice find on that S coil Interesting approach.

[tjnlsn255]

Two window motor questions....

Is there a minimum magnetic field downtime for the motor to work?

I have a 4" diameter pvc pipe rotor and my magnets are 2" wide so they will be very close together if I use 6 magnets at 60 degrees of seperation.... or should I just start out with two magnets 180 degrees apart? Do more magnetic field pulses per rotation give more torque/mechanical force?

Second question, I have plenty of 24 and 20 guage wire, if i twist two or more strands of 24 or 20 guage wire together and connect the ends, will I effectively have one wire of a thicker guage for more current and torque?

My goal is to get this window motor to spin the rotor of one or more car alternators to charge a bank of batteries......;-)

Thank you for any and all suggestions.....

Todd

[ren]

John has tried various designs, Ive seen some that have the edges of the magnets touching. Its up to you to determine what works best I think, remember if your magnets are strong they need to be fixed down well, and you'll want to make sure it is well balanced etc before doing any permanent gluing.

I like your thoughts on turning a conventional load, but its kind of working backwards. You have your rotating magnetic field within your motor, you can pick up a fair bit of energy off that! Thats not to say you cant have an energizer that is driven mechanically, but an alternator (it would most likely have to be a PMM type) will have considerable cogging/magnetic friction and your window will need to be very powerful to turn it.

I would try to get the 6 poles on if you can, the wire you have should work ok. If you want to switch on both poles wind two trigger wires with your power, and if you want recovery wind a big recovery coil at least twice as long as your power winding.

Im no guru, but thats my advice.

[tjnlsn255]

Hi Ren,

Thank you for the info....

I just want to be clear on your comments on the coils.... so basically I need 4 windings.... two triggers, a recovery, and a power coil, is that correct?

Is there a schematic for this configuration?

Have a most excellent day.....

Todd

[ren]

Todd, you could get this to work with only one winding. It would involve a device like a hall or opto to do the triggering though. My suggestion of four windings was to allow for you to configure it anyway you choose and allow for testing of various configurations.

If you are just wanting to build a basic model you can so easily with two windings, there are schematics in this thread already for those. If you wind them all you dont have to use them all at once.

[tjnlsn255]

Thanks Ren,

I agree that it will be a lot more flexable if I wind 4 to start and then use them as I need them....

I measured my rotor and I think I have about 1/2 inch between each row of magnets if I do the 6 pole so I will start with two and build up to the 6 once I get everything working.....

Question about PC Oscopes.... Does anyone have any suggestions for a PC based Oscope? I see one for $169 that is USB based that does a lot of things.... Is there one that is more basic than that for under $100?



Todd

[darkwizard]

hi Jetijs, I think that the generator coil is placed with the others windings in order to generate extra power to make the bedini window motor overunity without having to do any work over an air-core-coil .

I Had built an bedini cole circuit with a monopole coil not a window motor, and is very efficient , here im saying that it generates .98 of what it takes to move the rotor, and i'm thinking that an third coil will produce the overunity.

I take the basic bedini cole circuit, it is best than the full sequential bipolar version, sorry ren, you can re-make this, and your motor will be overunity.

Note that the full cole circuit is for using the hall ic's, in that case is better, but if you are using coils the best choice is simple bedini cole circuit.

Sorry for my bad english i'm from Argentina..

[darkwizard]

http://www.icehouse.net/john1/mot1.jpg

This is how looks my motor like John Bedini monopole version of bedini/cole circuit.


Thanks John Bedini, I love you!! I UNDERSTAND YOU!

[darkwizard]

I have my motor running for two hours continous and the battery dropped 0.05 volts.

[theremart]

RE: schematic

hey jet, its this one here. Pots on all resistors. The one between the pnp base and the small npn (I used mpsa06) will dramatically decrease amp draw if its high resistance (1k plus). Still tinkering with it, I'll post the exact schematic I used soon. This schematic isolates the power winding at all times except for when it fires, not like the SG circuit in which the coil is an extension of the run battery. Thats my understanding anyway.

NOG, this rotor is so tiny, and I have no way to load it properly. Im building a bigger one at the moment, it will be able to be loaded sufficiently.

Hi Ren,

Could I get your schematic from you on this, I looked at this post and did not see it.

Thanks!