4 Dual Pole Bedini Motor - by Darcy Klyne

[GlenWV]

which wire??

Perhaps you know exactly which wire Rick Friedrich used for his dulalpole 8 motor,for the power and trigger wire??

Greetings:

I am not sure which wire that Rick uses on his coils, but it really doesn't matter. All the wires are probably the same gauge.

If all your coils are the same, then just pick a wire and use that.

Take a look at the panels that hold the coils in place and see if one set of 'seats', 'holes', or whatever they're called is a bit oblong.

If one is oblong, use this coil for timing and take a wire from it for the trigger. The coil can be moved inside it's seat to advance or retard timing.

I believe that Rick uses one transistor on each board to control the other power transistors, FETs, or whatever he's using there. It's hard to speak on this without seeing your setup.

I am building a both an 8 coil, and a 20 coil machine right now, and expect to learn a bit from the process.

Feel free to IM me if you need assistance.

glenWV

[John_K]

This is the way I run my coils. This one runs at 3000hz so the fast
diodes are very much needed.

I drew the dia wrong so now it is fixed. This is my 14 awg wind.
I wanted to run more than an amp or two.

Hi Mikey, is this a self-oscillating circuit?

John K.

[BroMikey]

Hi Mikey, is this a self-oscillating circuit?

John K.

Hello John good to see you still kickin around.

To answer your question the circuit is a static solid state no moving
parts such as we see with John Bedini's SSG. I call this one an SSSG
or a "solid state school girl" which I am sure you are fully aware of.

I saw some of your videos a few years back where you connected
one of these up to a solar panel that changed up a cap bank to
shoot the batteries, nice job.

Is that what you wanted to know for sure? Or were you thinking of
something else?

I know it is off topic however 1 alteration and we could use it with
a wheel. This video is kool also.

All great foundational tools.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YziR-Vv-7U[/VIDEO]

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZHPIcev660[/VIDEO]

[BroMikey]

This one is my favorite, very few if any have selfrunners.

[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEzOX10j-D4[/VIDEO]

[sergejfa]

Greetings:

I am not sure which wire that Rick uses on his coils, but it really doesn't matter. All the wires are probably the same gauge.

If all your coils are the same, then just pick a wire and use that.

Take a look at the panels that hold the coils in place and see if one set of 'seats', 'holes', or whatever they're called is a bit oblong.

If one is oblong, use this coil for timing and take a wire from it for the trigger. The coil can be moved inside it's seat to advance or retard timing.

I believe that Rick uses one transistor on each board to control the other power transistors, FETs, or whatever he's using there. It's hard to speak on this without seeing your setup.

I am building a both an 8 coil, and a 20 coil machine right now, and expect to learn a bit from the process.

Feel free to IM me if you need assistance.

glenWV

HI Glen
First of all thank you and BroMikey for reply,
I have not done anything yet, I rather gather all the necessary information first before i get to work, to not screw up something, because my proper budget is very small,so I have to reduce errors to a minimum, especially for the coils, as they are the most expensive part ...
For now I have successfully made 7-filar coil 1 SSG with cap damp circuit, and I learned a lot with this setup, and I think I'm ready to switch to another project, such as 4 DualPole motor
Sorry for my bad english

[thedude]

No, mainly because he is an unstable person that I have grown to
distrust personally. I don't know what to believe about him.

Hi BroMikey. Sorry for my long hiatus from these forums man. I'll suffice it to say that its been a pretty tough year for me. Hoping my work situation improves soon. Regardless i'm back to work on my motor/gen and i've been in touch with Rick.

My intuition tells me (and i do trust my intuition), that Rick has been misjudged, all things considered by many in the renewable energy research community. I myself was guilty of passing judgement upon him unduly. I had my reasons as a customer, but he had valid reasons for his difficulty as well. Seems to me a lot has transpired over the last couple years. Rick is providing a lot of information that John had been unwilling to share, or held back. I don't want to go into detail here, if you are interested in knowing more on his and John's situation i think this video is an appropriate watch and really helped mu understand his situation. >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DJ-QH3h-xo&t=2s

Its been a real moral boost to be in touch with Rick. In my heart i know he is a very good person. I don't plan to pester him with questions, but its really great to know that he is supportive of the success of his customers. He's the only one i see proactively working to share all of what he knows the best he can. R-charge.net kit is excellently manufactured I'm very grateful to have any help that can be offered.

That said, i'm back to start documenting my progress here and will be making videos of experimental setup fairly soon if all goes well.

My apologies for any who have been visiting here in my absence.
Love and light
Thedude

[thedude]

Removed

I have the whole assembly out of the battery closet and on the bench. Finally. Not an easy task for 1 man with 2 arms. :P
Having mounted it in place for the last couple years (or so), it is nice to be able to have the room to properly work on it. I've decided to take some time to really think through its re-installation carefully. If i want to be able to continue to experiment with this motor and do repairs, its essential that i leave room enough to do replacements to passive components. That said, i'll need to invest in some more heavy cabling to extend the reach of the power in/out quick connectors as well. I would like to avoid having the motor inside the battery closet simply for the sake of doing battery maintenance.

On the left you can see the passive components ready to go in. I will be swapping out the 1N5408 diodes for MUR8100EG(ultra fast), and MJL21194 transistors for MJL4281 (higher volts/watts). Hopefully will be able to carry a bit more current safely with less destruction. My tests will be done @ lower voltage input until i'm satisfied that i have a stable, non-destructive running condition with all the new apparatus installed.

Additionally i have a Windmill PMA from Missouri Wind and Solar that i will be testing on the bench to see if it is a viable to use it in full time operation with the motor/gen to tap the kinetic output.


Other experimental componentry include the possible inclusion of my tesla pancake coil.


TESLA PATENT 512,340 COIL FOR ELECTRO-MAGNETS

Previous experiments with pancake coil were done while operating with very high current and produced quite unusual results. They require further investigation to confirm, or even contemplate, as i was unable to run them for any suitable duration (destructive temperatures). Ideally (as per Tesla's typical methods) I will be able to encase the coil while under vacuum to achieve the best dielectric efficiency.

Rick Friedrich has also described methods of generating higher negative potential utilizing a trigger coil as opposed to opto trigger circuit, while using different battery orientation. I will be endeavoring to educate myself in those methods through his more recent "Selfish Circuits" videos @ his Youtube channel I just realized how many new videos he has been adding to his channel. I have a lot to watch and study.

Thats it for now. Will be back when there is more to report.

Sincerely,
Darcy

[moflint]

Radiant energy from trigger methods

Rick Friedrich has also described methods of generating higher negative potential utilizing a trigger coil as opposed to opto trigger circuit and experimental apparatus at the trigger location in the circuit.

Hi, I believe Rick's take is that radiant energy can be both positive, and negative and that the trigger coil method will give a "predominantly" negative radiant spike. The hall effect sensor method with give a "predominantly" POSITIVE radiant spike, and you will be able to continue to charge batts with conventional non-radiant power. However if you use the trigger coil you will end up with negatively charged "dipoles" that will resist being charged in the conventional manner, and cannot be rotated in and out of conventional banks. You have to know the consequences of charging batteries like this - it may, or may not be what you want. I only have the mini dualpole motor running with hall sensor, and can say for sure that I can still charge them with both non-radiant charge, and radiant flyback spikes. I do not know about the opto switch, what kind of "mix" of positive or negative it produces, but if they roll in and out of service with your conventional solar charging then perhaps it is predominantly positive, same as hall switch. I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread - all the best, Mark.

[thedude]

Hi, I believe Rick's take is that radiant energy can be both positive, and negative and that the trigger coil method will give a "predominantly" negative radiant spike. The hall effect sensor method with give a "predominantly" POSITIVE radiant spike, and you will be able to continue to charge batts with conventional non-radiant power. However if you use the trigger coil you will end up with negatively charged "dipoles" that will resist being charged in the conventional manner, and cannot be rotated in and out of conventional banks. You have to know the consequences of charging batteries like this - it may, or may not be what you want. I only have the mini dualpole motor running with hall sensor, and can say for sure that I can still charge them with both non-radiant charge, and radiant flyback spikes. I do not know about the opto switch, what kind of "mix" of positive or negative it produces, but if they roll in and out of service with your conventional solar charging then perhaps it is predominantly positive, same as hall switch. I've enjoyed reading your posts in this thread - all the best, Mark.

Hi Moflint. Thanks for sharing here. I also have discovered these observations, to some degree, for myself. I understand that batteries charged exclusively by negative radiant energy become much more difficult to charge with regular positive ion flow. That negative charging can de-sulfate corroded batteries as well. For that matter i have kept my main solar banks of 12 batts in the primary position, and 2 separate charge banks of 8 batts in the secondary, and never swap those positions (primary and secondary). My testing with the opto circuit has also lead me to believe that there are differences in the secondary output when compared with the use of a trigger coil. My ceiling fan has 4 bifilar coils, each with their own trigger and circuit and i have observed more radiant neg output at the secondary in that model. However, i've not been able to test my 4 dual pole motor/gen with trigger coil yet. I'm actually looking forward to doing so. Things are still pulled apart for the moment.

Part of what i'm hoping to do is to make the trigger coil to opto running configuration easily switchable for future experimentation. I'm always concerned about causing damage to my batts (have cost me more than the motor/generator) and will be treading carefully with an understanding of better methods of utilizing the trigger coil method. Rick does reference different configurations in his selfish circuits/loving paths series of pdfs. Prior to moving one of my 2 - 8 battery banks on to the 4 dualpole motor 1 of them was used exclusively on my ceiling fan (higher negative radiant charging), and i've observed a lower float value on that bank compared to the other which only recently came into service with the opto setup on 4dual pole motor. This might suggest that it has now moved from negative charging state to a positive charging state and has suffered as a result.

Looking forward to sharing more and learning more.
Thanks again!

[ET-Power]

BroMikey,

Your video above with the two Reed Switches was very helpful, thank you!

=================================================

TRIGGER COILS & SWITCHING

Please excuse my ignorance...

I have been into this for over a decade but only recently getting into the electronics and building systems myself...

Am I CORRECT with the belief that the hall sensor, opto isolator, and/or reed switch ARE NOT NECESSARY as long as there are transistors for the energizer coils?

Is some additional switching (opto/hall/reed) beyond the transistor required, or does it only add greater efficiency with more accurate/faster timing/switching?

Hoping to start out with just transistors and no additional switching but will experiment with reeds.

PLEASE ADVISE, THANK YOU! ! !

[BroMikey]

BroMikey,

Your video above with the two Reed Switches was very helpful, thank you!

=================================================

TRIGGER COILS & SWITCHING



Am I CORRECT with the belief that the hall sensor, opto isolator, and/or reed switch ARE NOT NECESSARY as long as there are transistors for the energizer coils?


PLEASE ADVISE, THANK YOU! ! !

Well you can use whatever you have, like a transistor as a switch,
quick and painless. The transistors selected work well for Bedini.

Each way of switching offers a slightly different result almost like
cooking each time you change the recipe.

I like the John K. points system as a test. The points do switching
that very few circuits can perform and the idea of have a wheel
running up a battery with no circuit is cool to me.

Get your feet wet first using the transistors. mjL21194 for 12v
battery charging. If you want to charge a 24v bank use the brother
transistor MJL4281a, it has a 350 peak vs the 200v peak.

[ET-Power]

Thank You BroMikey!

Well you can use whatever you have, like a transistor as a switch,
quick and painless. The transistors selected work well for Bedini.

Each way of switching offers a slightly different result almost like
cooking each time you change the recipe.

I like the John K. points system as a test. The points do switching
that very few circuits can perform and the idea of have a wheel
running up a battery with no circuit is cool to me.

Get your feet wet first using the transistors. mjL21194 for 12v
battery charging. If you want to charge a 24v bank use the brother
transistor MJL4281a, it has a 350 peak vs the 200v peak.

I hadn't heard of or came across the MJL4281a, thank you! Even though this has a slower switching rate than the MJL21194 it has a higher gain an can handle higher V spikes as you shared.

Question:
Does the higher gains and peak V allow for an overall better transistor compared to the MJL21194 with faster switching?

If so, definitely going to buy stock in the MJL4281a instead of the MJL21194.

Question:
Have you experimented with pairing NPN's and PNP's multiplying them out per coil for greater balance and gain in the system?

Thank you sincerely, about to make some orders and experiment soon.

THANK YOU!

[BroMikey]

I used the MJL4281a for over 100v switching projects because
the industrial handbook tells you that for the MJL21194 the
max usage for max operation on the extreme upper end is tops
80volts. And that is with as many snubbers or dampening
suppressor circuits you can tie down the spikes with as possible.

In our case we want no clamping or cancellation of peaks, we want
to harvest everything we can. This means if you use a 12v battery
system (And you will never hear this anywhere else, you find out the
hard way) and your circuit is set to 15-16v zapping the spikes are
300 volts in many cases. BYE BYE junctions, up in smoke in a short
plead as you may for assistance getting someone to chance giving
you a recommendation as to what will continue to fry out.

Trust me, I know, I burned up piles of these popcorn peanut parts.

As soon as you try to charge a 24v battery your whole circuit will
fry that day. Besides, to date no one has uses any fast or slow
transistor to go orbital OVER-UNITY.

Even with a very fast or ultra-fast mosfet no one is looping anything.

Point being you are making a battery charger that you want to be
a practical working device with some sort of flexibility without rebuilding
every other weekend.

I can charge a 36v bank and run the pulses up to over a 100 volts
with spikes way up there and she won't fry out.

the old days of the 2n3055 has been out classed. Semi's are all the
same price. I use a 1000v part sometimes. 1500v parts like a vertical
deflection circuit uses to ensure the backlash from a HV transformer
doesn't end the fun.

[ET-Power]

Thank You BroMikey! ! !

Can not express to you how thankful I am you shared what you have BroMikey and all of the info, work, and videos you've shared for others over the years. I was about to buy large stock in the MJL21194, so very thankful you shared what you did.

I am about to build a large 2' - 3' diameter motor/generator and it will have either 8 energizer coils and 16 generator/pick up coils, or it's going to have 16 energizer coils and 32 generator/pick up coils. Since I am new at this I am going to start with one energizer coil at a time and work my way up as long as things hold up at the voltages I want to run. My goal is to run it on at least 48V input. I will do the Carlos F. Benitez approach Rick F. has been marketing as "Loving Paths." 48V primary, 24V secondary and rotate them. I really want to input 100V and beyond but will have to experiment and see how the parts hold up.

Your reply to my questions are IMMENSELY APPRECIATED as I was about to invest in ALOT of transistors. Your reply also inspired me to do more research. Based on your reply:

Besides, to date no one has uses any fast or slow
transistor to go orbital OVER-UNITY... Even with a very fast or ultra-fast mosfet no one is looping anything.

I get the impression you are more concerned about max voltage and amps + gains, rather than switching speeds?

What you recommended, the MJL4281A I hadn't heard of before so thank you! I spent two hours flipping through all of the JBT's on Mouser comparing Collector (C) to Emitter (E) Voltage Max, Current Max, Capacitance, Gain, Fall Times, and put them in a spreadsheet... The following are some of the ones that stood out to me as comparable to what you suggested (all in nanoseconds) but none have as quick of a fall time and gain all in the same transistor as you suggested with the MJL4281A.

Hope the below info is of use to someone now or in the future:
MJL4281A, 350V C to E, 15A, 80 - 240 (gains), 5ns (Fall Time)
BUL89, 400V (850V Max), 12A, 10 - 40 (gains), 55 - 80ns (Fall Time)
BUJ106A, 400V (CE/CB 700V), 10A, 10, 20 - 50ns
BUL98, 450V (CE 800V), 12A, 10 - 35, 100ns
BUX48A, 450V (CB 700V), 15A, 5, 55 - 80ns
MJW18020, 450V (CB 1,000V), 30A, 14 - 34, 250 - 500ns
BUL743, 500V (CE 1,200V), 12A, 35 - 80, 500ns
HD1750FX, 800V (CE 1,700V),24A, 1.5 - 5, 250 - 500ns
FJAFS1720, 800V (CB 1,700V), 12A, 8, 60ns






CAN ANYONE WHO HAS RAN 48V INPUT, OR PREFERABLY CLOSE TO 100V OR HIGHER DIALED IN THE REQUIRED TRANSISTOR VOLTAGE TO MAKE A PROPER CIRCUIT WITHOUT FRYING THE COMPONENTS FROM THE VOLTAGE SPIKES?!?!!?!?!?

@BroMikey:
I can charge a 36v bank and run the pulses up to over a 100 volts
with spikes way up there and she won't fry out.


Are you saying that you're inputting 100V???

Is that with a pulse width modulator or pulse generator?!?!?!

I want to run my system on something much more than 48V for experimental and purposes of personal fun to see what it can really do... Newman use to run his motors @ 900V LOL!

Higher Voltage, Less Current = less Lenz Effects

[sergejfa]

need help about scr

Hi guys,
I need help if it's possible, about 1200V 110A SCR,and how to make a SCR trigger with a diode, and which diode ??
And how to actually connect 10 dual pole motor with capacitor, SCR, and battery?? This part confuses me a bit...
Looking at the Rick's video, I did not see Rick using the bridge recteifer on the output of the motor,which then goes on the capacitor, does that mean that we do not need it,or I did not see it well ??
Can somebody,please,send me a schematic, or explain how to connect that part together??
Thanks
Sorry for my bad English