Donald Smith Devices too good to be true

[abdlquadri]

jeofr clarification

To confirm most of your input is lesser than 60W while your load is 60W.

What is the input voltage to primary.

Also I cant see a spark gap in the setup.

Thanks

[joefr]

Hi Duncan Thanks I hope I get new scope soon to continue testing

Hi Abdlquadri I hope to that more people will start working on practical stuff and show some practical results too
The input voltage is 25volts to primary LC
Yes there is no spark gap in this setup yet, because I want to try with low voltages so I can measure the input output without danger if I touch something .
But here is the video vith spark gap:
Don Smith Zilano Test 1 - YouTube

JoeFR

[Patrick Kelly]

Kapanadze spark-gap

When a tank circuit is in resonance, the input impedance should be extremely high, like an open circuit. If I see a spark gap firing constantly into a tank circuit, that would lead me to believe that the circuit is not resonant. Watching Kapandze demonstrations, the SG fires very little and at a very low frequency. I'm thinking that the SG only provides energy when the circuit goes out of resonance.

When TK presses the button to start his system, I think this is used to supply the tank circuit it's initial energy (the SG is temporarily bypassed) and then the SG supplies enough energy to keep the tank circuit in balance. I noticed the frequency of the SG changes as more or less load is placed on the system.

Hi,

It is probably not safe to deduce anything from the spark gap on the green box in Kapanadze's demonstration as he has stated that it is a fake intended to distract people and that there are two 'working' spark gaps inside the box, forming part of the real circuit.

Patrick

[JohnStone]

...
... I made many test at different input frequency from Signal Generator to Primary LC and measure the output voltage on secondary LC.
I made measures without load on secondary LC and with Load 12V 60W car bulb connected via diode.....

.....
I am waiting for lux meter to make accurate output measurements of the car light output. My scope died during testing so some data are missing and I cant show any scope shots for now because I am waiting for replacement.
JoeFR

WOW! experiment with thorough measurements. That's where I will arrive soon. I will study your figures ASAP. Thanks for sharing!!!!

Just two hints:
1.
Please - @all - give your lab record files an index in order to have clear reference later on. i.e." joefr_2012-02-11_Don Smith - Frequency Testing.zip"

2.
LUX measurements are not reliable and give no reference if used in hands free mode: environmental light, distance (decay with square of distance), view angle ...
I found to work best if I use a tube with white paper inside and set a cone on top (i.e. chopped funnel) for LUX sensor adaption. Do not use Al foil inside because of sharp reflections.
You need to calibrate every individual bulb by measurement series because they show very differnt performance.

Please note that my jig is made of transparent tube with white photo paper inside and the AL foil outside is for protecting from environmental light only.
rgds John

[boguslaw]

Hi,

It is probably not safe to deduce anything from the spark gap on the green box in Kapanadze's demonstration as he has stated that it is a fake intended to distract people and that there are two 'working' spark gaps inside the box, forming part of the real circuit.

Patrick

I don't think so...Analyzing spark gap in 2004 video can really shed a new light to the role of it in device. Especially if somebody accept that there were very close replications (both self-running but smaller power) where spark gap role is known.
I'm talking about SR913 ,delamorto and device shown to stiveip who visited Kapanadze in Georgia.

[Slovenia]

Thanks!!

Thanks for sharing your experiment details!!

Hi all

For better understanding Don Smith-Zilano Reverse Tesla coil concept I made many test at different input frequency from Signal Generator to Primary LC and measure the output voltage on secondary LC.
I made measures without load on secondary LC and with Load 12V 60W car bulb connected via diode.

For no load testing I put 1kohm resistor between Signal Generator and primary LC and measure the maximum sine wave peak to peak output voltage on secondary LC at different input frequency and different primary LC Cap values.

Here is the circuit schematic I used for testing with load connected. I used optical isolated mosfet driver ACPL3130 to drive 250V 15A N channel mosfet.
In this configuration I measured positive peak voltage and input power on Primary LC and measure positive peak voltage across load 12V 60W car bulb.
I noticed that without diode on primary LC i get very poor output on secondary LC so Diode on primary LC is important part in Don Smith-Zilano setup.

I am waiting for lux meter to make accurate output measurements of the car light output. My scope died during testing so some data are missing and I cant show any scope shots for now because I am waiting for replacement.

JoeFR

[JohnStone]

Hi Joefr,
studying your setup being very nice I'd like to recomend some improvements:
1.
I recomend to make GND leads much moreself resonance as well. At self resonance they do all weired things but giving charge on demand.
If you add a cascade of different values in parallel you will have a good blocking and a good reservoir of charge in order to supply your driver with any sudden charge request. And it needs at switch on several amps in order to supply the gate capacitance of your FET.
This hint is valid for all our semiconductor circuits. Please keep in mind that we dowse them with all kinds of HF up to GHz in case of spark. And we do not want to play roulett with our circuits.

5.
You might use these screw terminals from mains installation (see my last pic / foreground). This is a size where I can plug in the normal lab connectors (10 mm2 gauge) and I can fasten them if necessary. Keep leads short!

6.
Your Watt meter 130A is avery precise one. But they do not say anything about the frequency of readings. So you will get very accurate readings mostly but at certain frequencies you will get very high or very low readings because of the beat frequency (measure rate vs. your pulse rate). It is fully ok using this meter but you need to be aware or test it out where the critical frequencies are (with different resistor loads and frequencies). In that critical cases you might want to add a choke after the meter.


Please understand my hints not as nagging - not at all! Your setup is fully ok (apart from diameter of ground lines). But we ALL need to learn preempting implications and we ALL need to know what we ar doing.
In these kind of circuits we have no DC and no LF only! The pulse transisitons of every kind are HF! And it might be essential to have steep pulses and no GND rise along with all sort of implications. The implications might not be measurable with our standard scopes - and in no case if several kilovolts occure.
Imagine our circuits like a mesh wire built out of rubber threads and weights hanging there. All matter there is oscillating with random interaction. I pointed out some rules in order to keep your "mesh fence" a bit quiescent.
rgds John

[RAMSET]

keeping it simple

I still like heating water to get a good idea on watts happening.

put your bulb in a cup of water normally powered [keep the connections out of the water.

measure start temp heat for as long as you want measure the time and stop temp.
now do the same thing with your device running the bulb.
compare notes ..........

Thx
Chet

[nightwind]

[joefr]

[joefr]

Hi Chet thanks for additional tip

I will first make black box with lux probe like Jean-Louis Naudin did in Kapagen test. When you make tests like this I made, you need fast reading of output power. When you found best output for minimum input then you can make water heating output power test like you suggested to confirm the fast result.

JoeFR

[boguslaw]

Very good ideas !

I think one thing we can take as an axiom : the output is always MAX no matter what load is attached (and at least one must be there or device would destroy itself as Tariel said in one of available online videos). This is the crucial tip and also a limitation of device. T become convinced watch "clear box" video ! there is an experiment in this video when two banks of bulbs were turned on/off without voltage drop.

Think about the consequence of it.


Now the very special case of silent spark. I thought about that for a long time very long time and the silence of spark and I found only two explanations : one simple and one probable.
It is probable that with correct very stable and precise resonant matching spark is silent because occur in precise timing. The simple explanation is opposite : spark is silent because it has very low energy (like small air ozonator spark : just a 1-5kV very low power and frequency). Again think about those two opposite explanations and tell me what conclusion can you draw from them ? I'm all ears

[nightwind]

Hidden SG

Very good ideas !

I think one thing we can take as an axiom : the output is always MAX no matter what load is attached (and at least one must be there or device would destroy itself as Tariel said in one of available online videos). This is the crucial tip and also a limitation of device. T become convinced watch "clear box" video ! there is an experiment in this video when two banks of bulbs were turned on/off without voltage drop.

Think about the consequence of it.


Now the very special case of silent spark. I thought about that for a long time very long time and the silence of spark and I found only two explanations : one simple and one probable.
It is probable that with correct very stable and precise resonant matching spark is silent because occur in precise timing. The simple explanation is opposite : spark is silent because it has very low energy (like small air ozonator spark : just a 1-5kV very low power and frequency). Again think about those two opposite explanations and tell me what conclusion can you draw from them ? I'm all ears

I honestly have no idea about the hidden or silent SG and it's properties. If I can't see it or hear it, it doesn't exist in my mind.
I only wish that I could translate TK words and how he says them when I watch his videos. It would give me a better idea of the "type" of person he is and if he would deceive others. What is your impression?

[Slovenia]

Zilano Repost (Hidden Don Smith Seccret)

Aug. 13, 2011
Zilano

Hi there!
Don Smith was never wrong! read his pdf again there still lies a hidden secret but u have to
guess! its there but its hard for everyone to find. go thru it and u will get it. Don Smith wanted us
to learn deeper and then apply. Smith wanted us to use our minds. not just make us dumb
followers. I found it and used it and so will each one at this Forum. and the power s all urz for
free. Kapanadze is one Guy who found it and used it. Sr193 followed suite of kapanadze. but his
output i dont think is 50 hz.
and same applies to kapagen.
Regards
Zilano zeis Zane
Think and read Again !

[Duncan]

Nice one jeofr hope other members will join in the praticals and stop theorizing without setup!

Thanks jeofr!