Free Energy and Grass Roots Activism

[ashtweth]

Matt send all your stuff to the panacea uni, FREE OPEN SOURCE NON PROFIT

Your brothers are there to help.
forget the rest

Ash

[SL3]

Re: Panacea

That is one cool university on the web!

Say, does anyone know of conventional universities and tenured professors who have dared touch this stuff? Been thinking of taking my work into a serious graduate program -- securing some university and corp funding; Defending the thesis behind it; Furthering the science, etc.

As long as I'm a hack, it's about time I become the third Ph.D of my nerd clan. I'd just rather do that through a respectable U rather than a degree mill. Panacea isn't even selling degrees which is way too cool. I've been working to further the math and physics of this stuff while displaying prototypes. It's doctorate quality stuff I do, but I don't really know of any American university that I should call home or which would be friendly to my stuff. Some of the bigger name places have scratched upon these matters, but probably a smaller, more hungry school might be suitable. I dunno. University presidents I contact would have to be incapable of corruption by money and politics. That's hard to find in America. Know anyone? I'm still looking.

...There are plenty more things I want to learn and research --the bulk of which is not taught in colleges while some foundational courses from the conventional eggheads I do need to study at my leisure (various higher level mathematics). Thinking of negotiating something in exchange for shared patent rights, commercialization, and starting up a revised curriculum for their students. Bout time I call some U my roost. Panacea is pretty cool, but I'm stuck here in America and can't just freely exchange some technical ideas with all the world. Some stuff I can share. Some stuff I can't. Some stuff I keep. I crank out many things yearly, but it would be good to put things more formal under a graduate program while generating egghead pubs.

[UncleFester]

Those'r some great ideas

Mr. Krupa has sort of dropped off the net for the last 5 or so months, i fervently hope he is OK. By now he should have had lines operating in Brazil, China, and other places if his previous plans had worked out (..although many of us could have predicted endless roadblocks..for whatever reasons be they "normal" competitive/business, or sinister). I am hoping that if he is completely blocked, that he come here or to OU and try another route He is aware of these places, and once told me that he reads them. I hope the few independent replications did not turn him off to the Open Source community: And that he understands that they can only help him in the end... Everyone knows who the inventor is. The potential market is so huge that 10,000 successful replications would be less than 0.01% of it.

Bob and I could not reproduce the effects that he claimed (70 percent better mileage, almost double the horsepower, and 80 percent lower emissions). We tested his V-8 T-bird under the scrutiny of the whole staff of university professors. We had a dynomometer and two exhaust gas analyzers running. Video was taken of many different runs on this setup. Ignitions were Crane cams (the highest energy driver available 1.2 joules). The plugs were flawlessly machined with high end cnc equipment and looked like they could be displayed as a museum piece. The vehicle would not even run higher than 20:1 air/fuel. No increase in horsepower or fuel economy were shown. The investor pulled the funding at that point, after a loss of over $200,000 for the project.

I was told Nology labs (manufacturers of the Kiker wire and other products) in California performed similar tests that showed no improvement in horsepower and only slight increases in mileage, mainly due to the energy level increase. Emissions also dropped slightly but they saw no validation of wild claims and they could not get the engine to run at 30:1 air/fuel as Bob had claimed regardless of how many different test setups they ran.

Bob made every excuse in the book for the failure. There is much more to this story but the bottom line is that this is currently a pipe dream that does not work as advertised. There is one less angel investor out there to fund projects like this as well. The investor is no longer interested in funding anything that is not already proven. If this money had been spent on the Gray motor or other promising technology then it might be a different story.

[jibbguy]

Request for more info

Very interesting UncleFester. Thanks for you input. The information i received from Mr. Krupa, including independent test results back when i interviewed last year, showed something quite different. Were you a close associate of Mr. Krupa?

Some things i would be curious to know about the test you mentioned are, assuming the energy level of the spark was high enough to support the required "Plasma spark effect" of the plugs for best results; were there adjustments of the AFR only?... Or also adjustments corresponding to all required sensors as well... And if so, were these adjustments performed via manual or computer means at the time? If via computer, could you please tell us what was the specific program and interface used?

[Matthew Jones]

Matt send all your stuff to the panacea uni, FREE OPEN SOURCE NON PROFIT
Your brothers are there to help.
forget the rest

You'll be getting a good one here soon. Gotta get some more money together for a few more parts.

Matt

[UncleFester]

Very interesting UncleFester. Thanks for you input. The information i received from Mr. Krupa, including independent test results back when i interviewed last year, showed something quite different. Were you a close associate of Mr. Krupa?

Some things i would be curious to know about the test you mentioned are, assuming the energy level of the spark was high enough to support the required "Plasma spark effect" of the plugs for best results; were there adjustments of the AFR only?... Or also adjustments corresponding to all required sensors as well... And if so, were these adjustments performed via manual or computer means at the time? If via computer, could you please tell us what was the specific program and interface used?

I lived with him for 6-8 months in an apartment the Investor supplied us with in Utah while I built the circuits and we ran tests. There is no independent test result for the firestorm, or as he claimed, there is no written data from an independent source. When asked why he would not have saved the printouts from the dyno tests if they showed such miraculous results, he had no answer. He also could not supply the names and phone numbers from people who were involved in these tests. Apparently Lotus engineering would not have kept written records of these tests, or so I was told. As an investor I would have dropped the project at that point but this good hearted man decided to stick with it until the bitter end.

Our ignition setup for the bench tests were using an SCR rated at 1200V @ 200A. We used various capacitors for discharges up to 150 Joules (yes, one hundred fifty Joules). The bench tests were impressive and would explode water, however once I started using normal plugs with no resistor it quickly became clear they were just as good if not better than the Firestorm at creating plasma. At first it appeared that at lower power levels (1.5 to 2 Joules) that the Firestorm would perform better than a modified stock plug but later tests showed this was not the case.

On the car we had a microprocessor circuit built by a professional in Michigan that would allow us to override the stock computer and select an AFR up to 60:1. It was built to disregard all other sensors since we did not need Mass air flow sensor etc. The device slid into the card endge connector on the back side of the stock computer (LDL). We had lambda meters to tell us what the AFR was at all times and they tested accurate against the exhaust gas analyzers. The high end exhaust gas analyzers told us everything else we needed to know. The Crane drivers were the same units that Bob claimed were used in the original tests at Lotus engineering. These drivers would not allow you to dump a separate capacitor charge across the output and were sensitive to topping capacitors, so we did not use them at all. We could not get the car to run at higher than 20:1 with a single driver so we simply installed two of them in parallel for a total charge of 2.4 Joules and still could not get them to run at higher than 20:1. On the bench tests and the car they worked properly, but there was not enough of an effect to prove the claims.

The car immediately ran much smoother under the higher energy levels, but would stumble at all RPM ranges when the AFR went above 20:1 and the exhaust gas analyzer would show a massive burst of unburnt hydrocarbons, which was clear to mean that the higher energy levels and plasma effect failed to ignite such lean mixtures. This was embarrassing considering we had a shop full of professors who all claimed that a mixture that lean would not fire from the beginning of us being admitted into the facility. Fortunately they kept an open mind, although it was clear in the end that it simply was not working.

The other issue we ran into on the bench tests using 3+ Joules was that the plug would lose metal material over a 30 minute period of time and would eventually degrade the plug. This material was ending up on the glass surface of the inside of the pressure chamber we were using to test what the effect was at normal engine compression. High speed video of the bench tests (up to 120,000 frames per second) was impressive with all plugs, and with water, but it was not something that was going to be developed quickly, nor were the claims of high AFR's going to be proven. Thus, our investor dropped the funding and we came home.

At this point Bob stated a few things to me that made it sound like he never expected it to work and that he was simply jumping from investor to investor to sustain his lifestyle. Bob had no place to live at that point because he had blown all his money and had been kicked out of the Motel in town so he lived with me and my wife for a couple weeks before finding another investor to go live with (he has no home, no property other than his car and his family apparently no longer wants contact with him). He's been doing this for many years

I learned alot from the experience and was grateful for the opportunity to join the team, but it is not a technology that will make a huge improvement in the world, and even if it did work, it was clear that it was going to take millions of dollars to build an ignition system that the big three and other manufacturers would be interested in and would withstand large transients created by the plasma effect. Our investor had ties to the auto manufacturers, but he was not going to talk to them unless we had something valid of course.

[ashtweth]

You'll be getting a good one here soon. Gotta get some more money together for a few more parts.

Matt

Matt i am going to put your data (TW course) in our grant package to help support your work. Fingers crossed. I would rather a non profit org do it then a venture capitalist. Ok BRO any thing you need let me know.

Ash

[jibbguy]

Uncle Fester, thanks for the info. We now have a clear dichotomy of the claims and results of the firestorm, as well as for the existence of independent tests and documentation.

One thing i am curious of understanding more about, is that according to my notes, a laptop and program was used to interface to the car's computer module and control it in at least some of the tests Mr. Krupa was involved in. This is a different method than you stated, it apparently being a stand-alone module that interfaced to the 'puter unit instead of a "generic" laptop as Mr. Krupa stated. This part i remember clearly from our conversations, as i really wanted to know more about that program and interface for use with Open Source Hydroxy and Plasma projects (which, BTW, let's be clear about: these somewhat parallel technologies are not reflected on in any way by the current state of the claims on Mr. Krupa's work, which is only about the effectiveness of a particular design of sparkplug... And in no way a referendum on any other technologies.. No matter what the results of this investigation find).

Another thing that may interest many here to know, is the particular design that was used in these tests you know about: Was it the "original" design shown in the early videos and pics, or Mr. Krupa's "new and improved" design? If it was the "newer design", could you please describe it and the differences to the old one?

My involvement with Mr. Krupa was to interview him for one of my "Free Energy and the Open Source Energy Movement" articles, in the period of last July through August when we then fell out of contact. I spoke with him on the phone twice, and we exchanged several emails, and had conversations "going for background". I sent Mr. Krupa the actual questions for the interview, he said he was traveling overseas to make manufacturing deals, and would answer the questions while on the plane or in the hotel or whatever. But he never did send me the interview Q answers, and the interview was never published (lol, at the time i figured he thought my readership was "small potatoes" and not worth his time). I have not heard from him since. But nonetheless; due to the arrangements we had made for the interview; i will not now publish the documents he sent me without his express permission. I can tell you however that they would appear to directly contradict at least some of your statements.

My name, btw is Steve Windisch (as is published on my articles). For this to move on to the next step, I would ask you to supply me with your name privately via email or "Private Message" here at Energetic Forum. Also, if you have any photos of you and Mr Krupa together it would be most helpful (...also not for public view, as would be anything of a similar personal nature that you tell me privately; such as the names of other associates or co-workers who could possibly verify your statements). Names of the Professors and scientists that were present at the test that you mentioned, and/or at least the institutions / Universities they represented, would be very helpful; as would be the name and address (or at least town location) of the test facility it was performed at, too. Again, any of this information sent to me privately would not be made public, and should go towards proving the accuracy your statements: Which are serious enough in these circumstances, in all fairness, to warrant such measures... As i believe all here can understand.

One other thing that i would wonder about, is if you are in any way familiar with the extensive tests Mr. Krupa stated were done on the Firestorm by a spark plug manufacturer, over several months? You could also then tell me the name of the company in question privately if you wish (..which might be best if they have lawyers scouting about, lol : If Mr. Krupa's statements about this company were in any way true, the events do not cover them in glory ).

Regarding one of your statements about Mr Krupa, all i can say is probably all of us here know someone (...or have even been there ourselves), with money problems associated with divorce. I have no idea about Mr. Krupa's personal family situations, but my experience tells me such things can happen to anyone; sometimes even through no serious faults of their own (although my "Ex" may have a widely differing view on that last part, lol.. My worst nightmare, and the only thing that really could intimidate me, would be to have HER come on here, hehehe ).

So in that regard, i would say to all here to not allow the "sin of being broke" to be a factor going towards "character", in getting to the bottom of this matter. Possible lies or disinformation about the existence of test results, or about the results themselves, is a very serious matter however... As all can agree.

Since you took the time to come here and tell us this (presumably choosing this venue because i have reported on Mr. Krupa's work in the past), then perhaps we should try to get to the bottom of this here as well.

[UncleFester]

Uncle Fester, thanks for the info. We now have a clear dichotomy of the claims and results of the firestorm, as well as for the existence of independent tests and documentation.

One thing i am curious of understanding more about, is that according to my notes, a laptop and program was used to interface to the car's computer module and control it in at least some of the tests Mr. Krupa was involved in. This is a different method than you stated, it apparently being a stand-alone module that interfaced to the 'puter unit instead of a "generic" laptop as Mr. Krupa stated. This part i remember clearly from our conversations, as i really wanted to know more about that program and interface for use with Open Source Hydroxy and Plasma projects (which, BTW, let's be clear about: these somewhat parallel technologies are not reflected on in any way by the current state of the claims on Mr. Krupa's work, which is only about the effectiveness of a particular design of sparkplug... And in no way a referendum on any other technologies.. No matter what the results of this investigation find).

Doesn't work that way. The Ford computer has two ways to interface with it. Whether you use a laptop or a device that acts like a laptop doesn't matter. You can only get a small change in AFR unless you change the program itself. We needed to go 30:1 and higher, this could not be done by messing with O2 sensors, and changing variables within the computer. We had to change the entire fuel table in order to get leaner mixtures. This required the piggyback computer which cost the investor thousands of dollars to have made and programmed.

Another thing that may interest many here to know, is the particular design that was used in these tests you know about: Was it the "original" design shown in the early videos and pics, or Mr. Krupa's "new and improved" design? If it was the "newer design", could you please describe it and the differences to the old one?

There is little difference between the old and the "new" version. The old version was cobbled together from old plugs (Autolite mostly) and had four legs to the cage and a small ball for center electrode. The new version has three legs and a larger ball, and uses Beryllium Copper for the entire body. This design has flaws in that the ball would vibrate under combustion and crack the surrounding ceramic. These pieces of ceramic would then fall into the cylinder. Bob claimed this was because of the poor quality of materials and machining which was BS, we used the same manufacturer for all materials and more precise machining than he had originally used.

My involvement with Mr. Krupa was to interview him for one of my "Free Energy and the Open Source Energy Movement" articles, in the period of last July through August when we then fell out of contact. I spoke with him on the phone twice, and we exchanged several emails, and had conversations "going for background". I sent Mr. Krupa the actual questions for the interview, he said he was traveling overseas to make manufacturing deals, and would answer the questions while on the plane or in the hotel or whatever. But he never did send me the interview Q answers, and the interview was never published (lol, at the time i figured he thought my readership was "small potatoes" and not worth his time). I have not heard from him since. But nonetheless; due to the arrangements we had made for the interview; i will not now publish the documents he sent me without his express permission. I can tell you however that they would appear to directly contradict at least some of your statements.

He never traveled overseas for this project. He was given contacts for manufacturers in China and south America by close friends and associates. There are no documents other than basic statements from people without any detailed specs on mileage gain etc. It is very possible that documents were created to make it look as though the product had been tested extensively. I was never shown any of these documents and I don't believe the investor was either.

My name, btw is Steve Windisch (as is published on my articles). For this to move on to the next step, I would ask you to supply me with your name privately via email or "Private Message" here at Energetic Forum. Also, if you have any photos of you and Mr Krupa together it would be most helpful (...also not for public view, as would be anything of a similar personal nature that you tell me privately; such as the names of other associates or co-workers who could possibly verify your statements). Names of the Professors and scientists that were present at the test that you mentioned, and/or at least the institutions / Universities they represented, would be very helpful; as would be the name and address (or at least town location) of the test facility it was performed at, too. Again, any of this information sent to me privately would not be made public, and should go towards proving the accuracy your statements: Which are serious enough in these circumstances, in all fairness, to warrant such measures... As i believe all here can understand.

I can give you all this information and video of the test we ran. Test were done at Utah Valley University, Orem, Utah. I will send all the names and video in private email. My email is h2opowered at cox dot net.

One other thing that i would wonder about, is if you are in any way familiar with the extensive tests Mr. Krupa stated were done on the Firestorm by a spark plug manufacturer, over several months? You could also then tell me the name of the company in question privately if you wish (..which might be best if they have lawyers scouting about, lol : If Mr. Krupa's statements about this company were in any way true, the events do not cover them in glory ).

These tests were done by Bosch according to Bob and his story claims that Bosch was not interested in manufacture of the plugs because "they would not ever wear out". This we found out later was not the case under energy levels above 1 Joule. High speed cameras show that the plug loses material even in short test runs and would wear out in a vehicle fairly quickly.

Regarding one of your statements about Mr Krupa, all i can say is probably all of us here know someone (...or have even been there ourselves), with money problems associated with divorce. I have no idea about Mr. Krupa's personal family situations, but my experience tells me such things can happen to anyone; sometimes even through no serious faults of their own (although my "Ex" may have a widely differing view on that last part, lol.. My worst nightmare, and the only thing that really could intimidate me, would be to have HER come on here, hehehe ).

His money problems are not associated with divorce, they are associated with squandering large sums of money on extravagant late nights at restaurants, chasing multiple women who are less than half his age (at one point he was sending women up to 1000 dollars per week and then whining to the investor about being broke so he would give him more money. He was claiming he was going to be rich and take care of these women the rest of their lives. He has given out so many promises to his ex and others that he would pay them millions, buy them houses in order for them to give him a place to live, etc. Many of them are now chasing him for the money promised which is why he is flying "under the radar" to avoid them. He told my wife that he was going to build us a new house etc, I simply told him I was not interested in that, I simply want to see this thing work. This is the reason he is always desperate to find another investor who will just hand over the big money. If he would have used even half of the money he had squandered to build the plug he would not have to worry about gathering investors.

I doubt there will be any "getting to the bottom of this" unless you contact all of the people who have dealt with Bob in the past. But if you do you will see my past statements reoccurring over and over again. This has been an ongoing thing for 15 years.

What I am here to do is make sure no other investors get taken for hundreds of thousands of dollars. For 17 years I have been building devices and going to conferences and talking with Lindemann and others. It is difficult to find investor that will simply fund a project sight unseen because of all of the wild goose chases and such from Dennis Lee type of persons. This leave the truly serious researchers like Bedini, Lindemann, Flynn, Newman and others unable to fund truly promising technologies. THIS HAS TO END! We have got to belly up to the bar and get real technologies working and proven, and this takes funding. I have done this via my own finances in the past 17 years and it is so slow that it cannot be used to rapidly bring a technology to the rest of the world. We are running out of time and don't have time for any more wild goose chases.

Thank god we have people like Bedini who have been able to give some of their technology out in mass. I for one would not have power if it weren't for Bedini and Lindemann. I live off grid and require their technologies to keep my battery bank in tip top shape and to make power above what my small wind turbines and photovoltaics will provide.

[jibbguy]

OK thanks UncleFester, email sent.

I fully agree with the reasons you state in the last para's of your comment.
_______

I will report here on my findings regarding this matter as soon as it is warranted, but it may take awhile to collect data.

[Matthew Jones]

Sorry about changing the subject...but

Today we seen a significant day...And most probably missed it.

Today Obama got the resignation of General Motors CEO Rick Wagoner.
But thats not the news....
Obama gave yet another speech explaining why this man had to go. He said GM's plan for physcal restructuring was not acceptable. Obama said they did not put enough into the plans that usher in the next generation of vehicle.
But thats not the news either....

The real news was in a little blurb on NPR today. A white house spokesman mentioned the fact that GM was the largest holder of 3rd party patents in the world. No other country or cooperation holds as many patents for advanced technoligy in energy and energy consumption as GM.

HMMMMM....................Got me thinkin

I wonder how many letter from people in would take to get Obama or someone up there to look into the Stan Meyer technoligy that Nasa and the pentagon have. I wonder if he even knows.

I wrote my letter this afternoon......

Matt

OH ya I forgot

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

[lighty]

I wonder how many letter from people in would take to get Obama or someone up there to look into the Stan Meyer technoligy that Nasa and the pentagon have.

Probably something like 10^576 letters.

That's not going to happen while plutocracy rules US. Just check out who were major contributors to his campaign and who are the people he appointed to his inner circle.

[jibbguy]

Ghosts can't hurt you if you don't believe in them

Matthew, thanks for the info

And Lightly, it's not so much that anyone will read them and agree suddenly lol (of course they won't, and will resist as long as they can get away with it)...

Imo, it's all about that "Comfort Level".

If enough people started asking the tough questions, like:

"Why have these technologies been ignored, and not been properly studied (such as the Meyer system of disassociation)?"

Or

"Why does a corporation like GM or Exxon-Mobil have the means and power to choose which technologies are allowed to be used by our entire Society?"

When enough peeps start asking these questions, their comfort level factor goes down. Eventually, that level reaches the point where disclosure and ending suppression become the more comfortable path... And then it begins to happen.

We see this now with LENR/Cold Fusion. Yes, in the U.S. they got away with lying about it and suppression for close to 20 years (perhaps if Dr. Mallove had lived, this would have happened 3 or 4 years sooner).. But events (such as the furthering of the Superwave technology and others, imo), are now forcing them to play "CYA", and even the US Navy is now openly touting it (all this just within the last 2 weeks). In this case, they either had to do something or look like total morons or criminals when other countries started building power plants based on it; and it could then no longer be plausibly denied.

We can use the model of LENR with the other F-E technologies; IF we can get some good science data to back us, and have the means to create solid credibility. Once F-E devices are out there in significant numbers, being studied by local Community College science teachers, reported on by local news outlets (seen by millions on their local news); the "comfort level" of those in charge changes downwards, and again they will be reluctantly forced to do something; just like as with LENR .

Even those at the top must realize we cannot go on as usual with fossil fuels... But there is tremendous pressure to go on as long as possible (after all, each month the current paradigm lasts, that is more than a hundred Billion in additional profits).

I believe their problem is now, trying to start the disclosures and open marketing of F-E devices, without a huge flood of movement... Because these techs really are a "pandora's box" in that respect and once there is valid proofs, and they are seen in the mainstream media, and it is admitted by mainstream science to be valid... Then what is to stop everyone from wanting it, and loudly clamoring for it?

They will probably go at first as they are with LENR now: Fairly obscure (but not hidden) articles in MSM publications, but nothing on the Evening News or front pages of newspapers... Then companies starting to use and develop the techs quietly.. Hoping the news spreads slow enough that they can ease out petroleum and coal as fuel over many years, until their retirements lol.

I guess our task would then be to make their retirements come sooner

But to get the ball rolling, we need that "magic bullet", that proven device we can replicate and independently test all over the world simultaniously... Or, possibly when a commercial device finally does hit the market, without us doing a thing (in the event that ever happens, lol). Either way, that will be the signal that it is "all over", and it's coming whether they like the idea or not.

I guess the problem with these scenarios could be if we push them too hard, they then decide to push back. Not with the old "MIB" stuff; but in other, smarter ways (as is already used in politics all the time). It could get kinda of paranoid around some forums during that time, i predict lol... And sowing division and confusion will be one of their main objectives (LOL as if this genre needs anyone to do that!! ).

But i guess the key to getting through possible future disinformation and attack campaigns is to always remember your goals, and core understandings of the situation. After all, shills and dis-info artists are nothing more than "shades"; shadows or ghosts who can only hurt you if you believe in them.

[lighty]

@jibbguy

I'm not one of the conspiracy theorists but the fact present themselves. Obama is the same garbage as Bush but in nicer, more presentable package. Nothing more.

You really ought to watch Alex Jones's - The Obama Deception. I'm not US citizen so I couldn't care less but you might be interested.

[Matthew Jones]

You really ought to watch Alex Jones's - The Obama Deception.

You really ought to learn to weed through the rediculious BS put out by the NEO CON republican party. LOL
My best guess would be you probably don't believe in the Lunar Landing either.
Or maybe you really liked the Neo Con way and george bush is good man.
Or god knows what else. I'm gonna get myself in trouble if I go on.

You probably should just, NOT CARE about what happens in this country. We are trying ignore people who want to believe that BS.


Matt