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Soundiceuk's Permanent Magnet Bearing R&D

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  • #16
    Hi Paul,

    Just noticed your latest answer while I was preparing an answer so I include what I wrote, it may be relevant.

    Yes, in your previous video your vertical setup can freely rotate for quite a long time (like the toy does), even though there is a little friction at the bottom of your rotor shaft where the tip of the shaft touches the knife surface.

    From your latest video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW0H0D41uM4 ) it does not appear to me that "There is currently physical contact but barely." My impression is that there is a small 1 mm or slightly less air gap on both sides of the floating rotor versus the stator surfaces. Watching your video, there are moments when the floating rotor is displaced by your pushing shaft i.e. length wise towards the left or the right side stator Alu cases.

    You could build a simple test setup using much smaller magnets and no Alu enclosure for the magnets at all, to see that a thus floating rotor is able to spin freely at all (like it does in the toy setup), see a drawing attached. If the floating rotor can spin for a relatively long time, then insert an Alu sheet of certain thickness into both air gaps to see whether spinning slows down or not. You may need to increase air gaps to accomodate for the thickness of the Alu (or copper) plates.
    Similarly, you can place Alu sheets as if they were side walls, close to the floating spinning rotor to see any decelaration.
    Either 4 cube or 4 cylinder magnets you happen to have could be used for such tests. Alu plate thickness counts too.

    You write that you consider using 316 stainless steel instead of the Alu frame : unfortunately eddy currents can also be induced in them, they conduct current like Alu or copper.

    For the holding structure you may consider hard plastic,like polyamide or similar material or even wood planks, boards etc: no any metal content which would conduct current.

    Gyula
    Attached Files

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    • #17
      I think they got their title confused should be "Paramagetic""

      [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNu4Wbe8ZeI[/VIDEO]

      [VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u36QpPvEh2c[/VIDEO]

      I wanted the stainless 316 because of the weight.

      How strong is polymide compaired to stainless 316?

      316 stainless is hardly ferro magnetic around powerful magnets in my experience.

      The aluminium on the other hand definitely shows some weird braking behaviour.

      I'd definitely consider any non magnetic material that is strong enough.

      I only like doing experiments bigger scale. It is easier to see and feel differences when you change something because the effects are more extreme.

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      • #18
        I just tried to get a piece of paper through both sides and it goes straight through one but not the other it goes half way but if I push the axle the other way it swaps.

        It seems to favour going back to one way if I spin it.

        Its almost like one of the poles is more powerful than the other....

        Maybe if I switch the magnets around on one side it will make a difference.

        Asymmetry, but facing the right way asymmetry.

        Maybe I can get both sides pushing in towards the middle.

        Aren't both poles supposed to be the same strength?

        I've experienced this before with another experiment.

        I could probably capture that on video.

        Has anyone else experienced this?
        Last edited by soundiceuk; 11-23-2018, 02:56 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by soundiceuk View Post
          I just tried to get a piece of paper through both sides and it goes straight through one but not the other it goes half way but if I push the axle the other way it swaps.

          It seems to favour going back to one way if I spin it.

          Its almost like one of the poles is more powerful than the other....

          Maybe if I switch the magnets around on one side it will make a difference.

          Asymmetry, but facing the right way asymmetry.

          Maybe I can get both sides pushing in towards the middle.

          Aren't both pole to be the same strength?

          I've experienced this before with another experiment.

          I could probably capture that on video.

          Has anyone else experienced this?
          But you have two threaded stator shafts, why don't you adjust one of them say half a mm or max 1 mm away from the floating rotor? I thought there was no mechanical touching between any of the Alu cases... and the air gaps are clearly gaps.

          You also wrote:
          "316 stainless is hardly ferro magnetic around powerful magnets in my experience."

          Yes but eddy current is created by changing flux in electrically conductive materials, it is not about materials ferromagnetic properties.

          Gyula
          Last edited by gyula; 11-23-2018, 12:09 AM. Reason: addition

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          • #20
            Last edited by soundiceuk; 11-25-2018, 02:51 PM.

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            • #21
              Hi Paul,

              Can you check the link to your above video? It says an error occured and cannot be watched.

              It sounds good you test acetal for magnet holders. However, let me ask whether you increased the air gap by at least 0.5 mm on the side where you found the piece of paper did not go through straight? (I know there are huge attract forces involved and handling the nuts may not be easy.)

              Sorry if you already increased that one gap to get rid of the earlier unwanted friction, if you did, then did you also find the free spinning still very problematic? (i.e. it stops in no time for a finger spin.)

              Gyula

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              • #22
                Gyula, I've tried a few different positions until I end up winding them until they touch on both sides.

                I even tried a little bit of oil between the parts... that did make it spin a little better. Kind of defeats the object though.

                Some other experiments I've done show one of the poles is stronger than the other.

                Has anyone else ever come across this?

                Maybe I'll have to make a video to explain.


                I still haven't tried flipping the magnets on the right over so I'm not N/S N/S

                and instead N/S S/N.

                I just think the outer magnets need to be stronger.

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