Reactive Generator Research for everyone to share

[thedude]

Darcy - thanks for sharing. Its good to see someone in the process of testing and learning - so we can join in the learning experience. Your large Tesla bifilar coil is impressive!

Pls share more as you learn more. Looks like pinning down Pinput may be a bit tricky with this circuit...

Thanks Muon! I have no shame, so i don't mind exposing my ignorance to a degree. lol Yes... consumption does not seem to be relative. Having lots of fun exploring though and will definitely keep sharing what i do, for as much as that matters. Thanks for the nice comments and i do really love the pancake coil. One of the best things i've fabricated for experimental use.

Thanks again.
Darcy

[gotoluc]

Good for you Darcy,

please feel free to add your variations. I am sharing so that together we can develop and learn.

Speaking of learning. I do know the plug in watt meter is not 100% accurate but in your setup it's not off by as much as you think.

You need to read up on Power Factor and how to calculate true power from the apparent power in AC circuits.
The way you are doing it is not correct. It may be if it was DC going through your circuit but AC is a very different animal. You could calculate AC power the way you did if you were only powering a Resistive load from your variac, then you could calculate current x voltage = watts.
However, when you have coils (induction) and capacitors (capacitance) then everything changes since there will be a phase shift between the current and voltage and this is what these power meters can calculate (to a certain extent) and display the real power being used. My guess is what you're seeing on your power meter is about 90% accurate. To truly have an accurate measure you will need an Oscilloscope.

So the results are much better than you think.

Thanks for sharing your results

Luc

[gotoluc]

Darcy, could you please do another video of your setup to better demonstrate what happens when you disconnect and connect your external self capacitance bifilar coil.

In your video you do it so fast that we can't see what effect it has on your motor and power meter.

You are doing a much better job than you give yourself credit.

Looking forward to seeing more of the effect your self capacitance coil is doing.

Thanks for sharing your light

Luc

[thedude]

Darcy, could you please do another video of your setup to better demonstrate what happens when you disconnect and connect your external self capacitance bifilar coil.

In your video you do it so fast that we can't see what effect it has on your motor and power meter.

You are doing a much better job than you give yourself credit.

Looking forward to seeing more of the effect your self capacitance coil is doing.

Thanks for sharing your light

Luc

Hi Gotoluc! Well that is encouraging! I thought i had a tingling sensation for a reason. lol Thanks so much for your support. I have a 2ch phillips 3070 100mhz oscilloscope but was a little unsure of best method of isolating the ground. So far i've only used it to analyze DC circuits. I only have 1 - PM 8926/09 passive probe on it and another garbage lead i can use on the second channel for now. I was a bit concerned about hooking it up with this AC circuit. I can wind a 1 to 1 isolation transformer, or had it in mind to perhaps purchase one. I could use a little advice on the best method of preventing damage to my scope? I'd really like to present some wave forms and the oscilloscope is sitting right there but i was afraid to use it. :P lol!

I'll definitely do up another video and show the effect that disconnecting the secondary has on the motor and consumption. In earlier tests on lighter loads the bulbs would brighten and the wattage would decrease with the secondary hooked up, while dimming down and cost more wattage when i disconnected it. I'll test it and try to get a video up soon.

I best hit the hay for tonight. Thanks for the quick response Gotoluc! I'll try to put up another vid tomorrow if all goes well.

L&L,
Darcy

[gotoluc]

Great Darcy,

I'm looking forward in seeing a video demo of the positive effects of your idea of added an external bifilar copper foil capacitive coil

Tomorrow I'll post a diagram for you on the correct probe position and what to do to keep your grounds isolated from the grids hot side.

Make sure to have a 0.1 Ohm resistor for this purpose.

L&L to you too

Luc

[barbosi]

For some time I was also unable to decide if the meters are able to read power correctly. I don't think they can when PF is close to zero. The only way I could think of testing the circuit to see if it can deliver real power (hopefully at no cost) was to build a generator...

Metrology (not to be confused with meteorology) measures different effects to put numbers on the target. Most notorious in my opinion is the measure of time although metrology is not directly involved in this. But tension, how do you measure tension? For high voltages it used to be distance of traveling spark, but for low voltage... current flowing through a known resistor? how about measuring a current then? measuring voltage across it? Is that a circular reasoning?

Whatever method of measuring the effect (even using the calorimetric method), metrology says the most acurate measurement is in the mid range/scale of the instrument. Since Power Factor = 0 is at the lower range (I know but nobody can prove their instruments are not tuned with this characteristic in mind), is easy to understand the wide range of errors offered by different instruments. Most instruments and power meters used by power distribution companies (in my opinion) were developed to give some revenue in top of "delivery fee". And that's all of it. If one looks to cheat the power company, that it will cheat you back if you try to get smart. And sue them for a tolerance issues that is nondeterministic at the and scale of instrument... If you dare.

But without the notion of cost (economic wise), the resonance itself is a great thing to observe and study.

Regards and thanks for the treat.

[gotoluc]

Most instruments and power meters used by power distribution companies (in my opinion) were developed to give some revenue in top of "delivery fee". And that's all of it. If one looks to cheat the power company, that it will cheat you back if you try to get smart. And sue them for a tolerance issues that is nondeterministic at the and scale of instrument... If you dare.

But without the notion of cost (economic wise), the resonance itself is a great thing to observe and study.

Regards and thanks for the treat.

barbosi and everyone,

please note, this circuit idea is not to get a free lunch using the Grid.

I maybe attaching my test circuits to the grid (because it's convenient) to demonstrate what it can do but that is only for demonstration purposes and not the intended use of this circuit if in the end is proven to work.

Ideally the developed circuit would be fed by low impedance DC batteries as this research is a possible solution to give power to the poor people of this world who have no grid and no way to make a living or even live if the can't pump water to their crops.

So please try to help in the development for the good of the people of this world as I know there are quite capable individuals here.

What would be needed next is a special circuit that would take high current lead acid battery DC and make AC BUT the circuit needs to handle the return (reactive circulating current) back to the batteries. An off the shelf Inverter cannot do this.
So if you can develop a DC to AC circuit that can do this, that person would be my hero and many other peoples hero.

Thanks for your time

Luc

[gotoluc]

At everyone,

my most current tests are now leading me to believe the circuit needs a LOW Impedance power source.
My new double MOT circuit attached to the grid can now deliver 50 Watts and still maintain a 90 degrees phase shift but when I attach it to my 1000 watt Alternator generator I can only get 29 watts max without affecting the prime mover.

This leads me to believe that my Alternator Impedance which is much higher than the grid is causing losses as the reactive re-circulating power is being wasted in the Alternator coil resistance.

If we consider two of the supposed to be looped generator videos (Valy being the most recent) one thing they have in common is they have over size Alternators. Something in the range of 30KW or so.
Obviously these Alternators would have extremely low Impedance compared to mine and would not waste the return current and also deliver more because of the minimal losses.

So considering this, the possibility of looping my small scale setup is next to impossible. What we would need to do is come up with a solid state version of a Battery DC to AC switch (suggested in above post) and eliminate the generator and loses altogether.

Looking forward in the participation of the bright minds on this forum

Luc

[thedude]

reactive motor pt2

Link to Video > Reactive Motor Experiment pt2

Hi again to all and Gotoluc. In this video, I try to show an oscilloscope reading next to the motor on ch A, while running in relationship to what i think could be representative of 60hz on the grid on ch B. I took the hook up connector from a signal generator and i'm using it in channel B and i'm not using it as a probe in this video, but it is generating a 60hz sine wave that is out of phase with my readings on the AC circuit even while motor and circuit are not running. Which gives me the impression that it is representative of the grid 60hz (possibly feedback from scope on that probe). I still haven't set up an isolation transformer and will need another good probe for my scope before i can likely do power factor analysis. I'm using what i have at the moment and none of this is proper instrumentation i realize. Just have to take it for what it is for now.

I pull the leads off the tesla pancake on the secondary while its running the circuit and make some interesting readings. The watt power meter is reading 15 watts at one point with the outside of L2 on the pancake coil disconnected. While like that I felt ionization and could hear it as well. Open ended like that seemed to turn the coil into an antenna. lol Could have been through the insulation of the cheap quick connect wires laying on top the coil (not good, will fix). There was also a very distinct hammering at the same time. I didn't want to leave it running in that state for too long. I normally do some review before posting a video to make some observations but I think the voltage was maintaining a higher state while L2 of pancake was removed which makes sense. However at one point while removing the leads from the pancake i also noticed that the phase shift looked nearly 180 degrees perhaps. Will need to watch video my self and check that but will need to do that tomorrow as i should have been sleeping 2 hours ago. Having too much fun.

Thanks for advice and for your attention.
L&L
Darcy

[gotoluc]

Hi Darcy,

thanks for making the second video and including an attempted scope shot.

Just so you know, my name is pronounced Luke but since I'm French Canadian I write it Luc as written in French. So, where about in Canada do you live? I'm in Ottawa.

Now back to the test. May I suggest a baseline test. First just Short your MOT Secondary as my suggested circuit and show us the voltage at the motor and power at input.
Then add your external pancake coil to it, which basically shorts the secondary but it may make a changes to motor voltage and input power, so show us that.
It was very interesting to see when you disconnected the back end lead to your external coil but the input power did not shoot up as I would expect and your input power had quite a drop. That is the most interesting thing to me.

When the MOT secondary is open it gets sharp hit like a hammer and nail caused by the sudden cap discharges. You can hear the sound of the hits. However, it becomes very costly in input power as you have shown.
I've attached 2 scope shots. The first is what my circuit looks like with the Secondary shorted and the second is what it looks like with the Secondary open.
The preferred is with the Secondary shorted but you maybe onto something as now I can't explain why we don't see the input power shoot up when you open that back lead your external coil

Could you please redo these tests so we can compare all 3 scenarios.

Thanks for your time

Luc

[gotoluc]

Hi Darcy,

the attached image is of my circuit and where to place the scope probes. Channel 1 is Voltage and Channel 2 is current across the 0.1 Ohm resistor.

You may not need an Isolation transformer if you know which lead is hot and which one is Neutral.

Both your probe grounds need to be connected together on the Neutral side after the 0.1 Ohm resistor.

If you can find a piece of coax wire with a BNC connector at one end (used in video, cctv and computer networking) you could splice the other end and solder alligator clips and use it as your current probes across the 0.1 Ohm current measuring resistor. Use you other probe as voltage since you will need to switch to 10X to be able to see the 120v wave form on your scope.

Once you have it connected, start your variac at lowest voltage and slowly bring it up. If it shows many watts at low voltage then you have a short from hot to ground and may have to reverse you connections. You can't ham your scope if you start at a low voltage.

All the best &

Luc

[thedude]

Manitoba here

Hi Luc! Yes i knew it was Luc. :P lol I had the habit of pronouncing it (in my own mind i guess) as "luck" prior to discovering your first name with the advent of google+. I got it right most times i've said it but i noticed a slip in the video as well. lol sorry my bad Luc. And your bad luck that i'm so forgetful.

I'm in friendly Manitoba! One of our most socialist provinces i might add. Most people here keep their heads down relatively. I still haven't made it very far East from here but hope to see Ottawa one day and visit the east coast. I spent my young adult years on the west coast in Victoria, B.C. Loved it there, but Manitoba is more...affordable. :P

My arrangement is a little different than the schematic you've shown with the .1 ohm current resistor, as i currently have my motor and AC caps on the same side of the primary on the way to the AC source. But i get it. As long as its between the load and the source we'll see the current. I'll do my best to sort out my readings on the scope for next video. I'll possibly have to order a .1 ohm resisitor (@25watts). I have a few 1 watt and 1/2 watt but nothing bigger than that, other than 2 - 2.2ohm 25watt resistors i can gang together for 1.1ohm. Sure wish i had a local passive component dealer, but Newark is pretty fast and i'll put it in today. Maybe even look at some probes or possibly a current probe.

Thanks for stepping me through the probing process. Its mainly that I wouldn't be able to afford to replace the scope if i burnt it up that is giving me pause. But it does seem pretty robust I appreciate your correspondence and patience Luc and i'll try and keep following up with small developments on my end.
Thanks again!
L&L

[thedude]

secondary shorted works

Hi again. Should be resting but i'm preoccupied. Was just running my set up with the secondary shorted out and the pancake removed and it runs just as well around 55-60 watts on the power meter. Actually seemed to run with out as much fluctuation on the power meter while i adjusted the variac. Good call there Luc. Its best to know what is worth getting excited about. I'll be sure to point this out in next video as well. :P Every time i make a video i almost immediately feel as though i need to amend the things i say and do in them. I guess thats the danger of recording what is going on as it goes on. I'll try to be more accurate about what i'm observing.

I did notice in previous tests when playing with light bulbs as a smaller load and using 2000v .15uf caps on the secondary, i was able to run a 15watt bulb (just shy of full brightness) while 0-3 watts fluctuated in the power meter. This relied on my having only 3 or 4 of the .15uf caps in series on the secondary in once instance. I need a greater variety of 110-220 volt caps too, along with many passive components it seem I can't have enough. Anything you can think of I should add to my list? lol

edit- Was thinking i could just run my Scope off of solar inverter banks to avoid a short through the scope or just realized i have a couple little old Computer UPS units i could salvage the isolation transformers out of. I love making use of old electronics crap i seem to hoard.

[gotoluc]

Sounds good Darcy,

having the motor in series right after the series caps (pre MOT primary) is how my circuit was connected to the Induction Motor (turning gen head) in my first video. I was happy to see you also figured out how to start the motor by bypassing the caps.

I recently purchased 20 of 5uf caps for $2. each + shipping
CP10 10 Lot 5MFD 370 Volt Motor Run Capacitor 5 MFD uf Titan Pro 60 000 Hour | eBay

The benefit of using many low uf caps in parallel is you can make smaller changes when tuning. The other big bonus is 2 identical caps connected in parallel will have half the internal resistance as using a single cap of double the uf value. So the more you have connected together the less waste of power you will have at the cap bank.

If you're going to order from Newark, better order a Hall sensor like Allcanadian suggested (some posts back) to use as current probe as the wire wound resistor I'm using is not the most accurate and can cause false readings at higher frequencies.

L&L

Luc

[thedude]

getting serious about instrumentation

@gotoluc - Will be doing more tests shortly to show the shorted condition on the secondary and with the pancake. Never got much of what i needed to do done today. :P
I did order up a couple batches of those caps. Thanks. Also edited my vids description to reflect your proper name.

@ Gotoluc and all
I'm still shopping for hall effect current sensor solution. Have been looking at getting into allegro or arduino for some time, but now i really see the necessity. If any one familiar with programmable ICs might suggest the simplest setup to get started with something that works well that they have had good results from, i would appreciate it. I'm tired of being such a novice at instrumentation. Trying to make good choices. I did see this setup on youtube and might be a good way to go.

Now that i'm reading seriously about it there are a number of options to the ACS756 for Hall effect current sensors. I've also come across this fluke I1010 probe attachment (reasonable) that uses a hall effect sensor on a loop clamp. Or i guess that is back to phase issues with the reading?

Sorry for all the questions, but i guess thats what a discussion thread is for.

One thing for certain this project is forcing me to finally do a lot of the learning i've been avoiding until now (AC in general). I should come out of this better prepared to show real data in the future though I hope.